This is being reported by the BBC here.
This is likely to be an embarrassment for supporters of the NHS reforms who have been claiming support from the medical profession.
Tuesday, 15 March 2011
SACC "March for the Alternative"
At last night's meeting we felt it would be a good idea to have a march in Southport for people who can't get to the London march. I have created an event on facebook for it and notified the police. Here's a link to the facebook event: https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=196807497016854
This is not intended to detract from or compete with the London march, if you want to go to London we will try to help with this, please contact me 01704 531613 or southportanticuts@hotmail.com
If you can't get there or don't want to go please come to our march, it is really important to show how we feel about the cuts to our vital public services.
This is not intended to detract from or compete with the London march, if you want to go to London we will try to help with this, please contact me 01704 531613 or southportanticuts@hotmail.com
If you can't get there or don't want to go please come to our march, it is really important to show how we feel about the cuts to our vital public services.
Thursday, 10 March 2011
Write up of the Public Meeting with Jonathon Parry (Chief Executive of Southport and Ormskirk NHS Trust) and the effects of the incoming Health and Social Care Bill.
The Meeting was fairly well attended last night with most seats filled. As people entered they were asked to fill in two forms, one asking for fairly intimate details and intrusive information like sexual orientation and whether you were still the gender you were designated at birth. The other, a registration form, took contact details and had a tick box which asked if you were interested in becoming a supporter of the Foundation Trust. The explanation of what a Foundation Trust is, what becoming a Supporter of the Trust might involve and how it would affect the two hospitals, I felt, was woefully inadequate even on request.
I asked for an explanation and the response was basically "well the hospital want to become a Foundation Trust and your involvement could be anything from recieving newsletters to being actively involved, Jonathon will explain more in his talk". Since the box was on the registration form, you were required to decide before the talk was given. I thought this was poorly planned and this made me wonder if there is more to this "Foundation Trust" status than meets the eye. If the idea is so good why set people up to fail by putting the question about support on the registration form before you find out what the Foundation Trust is and decide whether you want to support it?
The idea behind a Foundation Trust is that it is meant to give the Hospital greater independence from central administration. It will be administrated by a board of Governors, the trusts are meant to be run mutually and are designed to be more accountable and involve local people and service users more in the operation of NHS services. There is no guarantee however how "mutual" the Foundation Trust will be or what targets and motivations will guide its operation. Localism in this way opens the door for privatisation and fragmentation and incentivises a "postcode lottery" by creating potential for huge differences in care, services and priorities between areas.
Currently, Foundation trusts are restricted in the number of private patients they can treat. The new Health and Social Care Bill, which is still at Committee Stage in The Commons seeks to end this restriction and supposedly free up Trusts to make an income from private care which they state Trusts can use to fund NHS services. These two things are, I suspect the "more than meets the eye". What will this actually mean? Clearly if NHS services are to be in competition with private services the private services have potential to be more profitable for the trust, especially when postioned against the heavy sanctions and fines for relatively common occurrences within NHS treatments which are often beyond the Trust's control or responsibility as detailed below.
The Health and Social Care Bill, according to Mr Parry's talk, seeks to fine Trusts for readmissions after elective procedures even if the readmission is unrelated or beyond the control of the hospital i.e. attributable to patients not taking prescribed medication e.t.c. Last year had those fines been in place the trust would have been fined £5m, Mr Parry stated. There will also be fines for patients staying longer than they are meant to in hospital and fines for not respecting privacy and dignity.
Fines for "elective procedures" will apply, not just to what some might imagine (optional procedures) but also to scheduled or planned procedures. Anything which is not an emergency is an "elective procedure" this will disencourage Trusts to provide anything but Emergency Care on the NHS as the sanctions appear to be so heavy and so unfair that it may become too risky to provide the service at all. This is even without taking into account the "patient tariffs" - how the new system will place a monetary value on services in order to make them competitive, mentioned by Mr Parry, that may mean it is no longer economically viable to provide certain types of care.
I was under the impression that when people stay longer in hospital than medically necessary it was because it was inappropriate to discharge them - they maybe had nowhere to go, possibly because they couldn't afford nursing home care or had an inappropriate home environment. So, given that a person's home circumstances are beyond the NHS's control and I believe many, specifically elderly people, are coming into hospital because their home circumstances are inappropriate in some way. Or alternatively, because of the increased chance of poor health and complications and the complexity of managing what is likely to be multiple complaints and conditions they have found that their home environment has become inappropriate whilst they are in hospital. How much can the NHS reasonably expect to change this situation? It seems it is another, large area of care - geriatrics, that will become too risky and too expensive to be provided on the NHS.
The fines for not respecting privacy and dignity, on the face of it seem great for patients. We are likely to be luckier than in some other places because our hospitals are relatively modern says Mr Parry. What is missing from this picture however is the context. Trusts are being asked to, in many cases, entirely redesign the layout and physical structures of their buildings. This costs money, money which has not been given to aid these changes. In fact, nationally the NHS, according to Mr Parry, is being cut by £20bn which, by my maths, is around £325 each for every man, woman, child, baby e.t.c. in the UK - a cut of 4.5% across all NHS services (again by my maths and assuming the cut is spread across 4 years). What this will mean is that if separate wards cannot be provided and privacy targets met, the service will be considered too risky and there will be a temptation not to provide it.
Going from Mr Parry's talk last night what this means is gaps in services. If the "patient tariff" is not in your favour, if your illness or pregnancy, is not profitable for the Trust to treat or manage because of sanctions/competition/patient tariffs then those services will not be provided. Mr Parry admits the system is modelled on US and European "evidence" but our health system is unique so how well does that evidence translate?
The fact that anyone would see the US system as desirable makes the mind boggle until you realise who does best. In a market driven "Health Economy", as Mr Parry puts it, i.e. not a universal healthcare system but one that provides services that are profitable rather than necessary, who are the winners and who are the losers?
Losers:
1. If we look at America's competitive free market "Health Economy" the vast majority of ordinary people are losers. In the USA the Government spends more on healthcare than in the UK, almost twice as much in fact, but do the patients get more? If we look at WHO statistics it would seem not. According to WHO, UK public healthcare (NHS) in 2006 cost 8.4% of GDP. In the same year it cost the USA (medicare, medicaid e.t.c.) 15.3% of GDP. In the UK the probabilty of dying between the ages of 15 and 60 is 98 in 1000 for men and 61 in 1000 for women. In the USA it is 137/1000 and 80/1000 respectively. Life expectancy at birth is slightly better in the UK too (2 years more for men, 1 for women). More children under five die in the US too - (6/1000 in UK, 8/1000 in the US). In the UK you can expect to be healthy for longer too - an extra 2 years for men and 1 year for women. If you look at the breakdown of WHO statistics in both the USA and over here you can see that as health spending has risen over time infant mortality has fallen. Time will tell whether cuts to health spending will have the converse effect.
Wikipedia says the WHO:
"in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[12][13] The Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among similar countries,[14] and notes U.S. care costs the most.[15]"
A damning article in USA Today (22/05/2002) builds on other things mentioned in the wikipedia article saying:
"Among the study's findings is a comparison of the uninsured with the insured:
This article refers to an Institute of Medicine study from around that time that found, amongst other things, that over 18000 people per year die as a consequence of not having access to health insurance and therefore healthcare.
In 2010 the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act became US law, designed to protect patients, and public health from the adverse effects of their "Health Economy"'s free market. So America are trying to make patient care and public health more of a priority whilst the UK is trying to create a competitive "Health Economy" driven by competition and the market rather than health needs. America and the WHO seem to consider the American model of free market competition a failure.
There is a misconception sometimes that lack of adequate insurance is something which exclusively affects the poor. This is not true either. If the insurance company believes you are a risk, for any reason, then you will be charged a higher premium or be unable to get decent cover.
2. NHS services will be a big loser over here. The point of the NHS has never been to make a profit or be a financially viable business - it has been to provide healthcare services free at the point of use. This is designed to improve public health, wellbeing and standards of living. In a market system where patient care is given a monetary value rather than a quality/medical value this means public health will be compromised. We will no longer treat people when they are sick, or even before they become critical. We will provide emergency care and that is all, and people who cannot afford to travel or buy private health insurance will not have access to healthcare and people will die just like in the USA. It will be the end of the NHS, by very definition the Health Service will no longer be National because of the fragmentation caused by Foundation Trusts and the market economy approach potentially brought in by the Health and Social Care White Paper.
3. People living in rural areas, Children, the Elderly and the Vulnerable (the poor, deprived, mental health services e.t.c.). These areas of healthcare, which are often complex and costly and often require multi agency involvement, are the first things likely to go as they are labour intensive, complex, costly, time consuming and often unpredictable and will likely not fit well into the new "Health Economy"as profitable services.
4. Small Businesses. As private healthcare takes over from state provided universal healthcare businesses will be expected to provide healthcare for their employees as they do in the USA. This makes jobs with big multi-national wealthy corporations more attractive to prospective employees and will further strangle small businesses as they struggle to compete. Small businesses contribute more to the economy (pay higher rates of tax, promote local business communities, employ local people e.t.c.) whereas whatever profits big businesses make they tend to exploit cheap labour abroad and avoid/evade taxes which means less coming into the UK in emplyment terms as well as in potential tax.
Here is an interesting page about the benefits Universal Healthcare would bring to the USA - it is basically an argument to keep Universal Healthcare in the UK too:
http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm
Winners
1. Private healthcare companies. More NHS services will be outsourced to be provided by private companies as the NHS is put under pressure to do more with less. Like with hospital cleaning, the utility companies, social housing e.t.c. what we will see is a decline in the quality of the service and therefore even if the cost of the service decreases, which given the evidence is unlikely, the associated costs rise (associated costs of privatisation of hospital cleaning were the development of hospital superbugs). This will not stop private companies making a profit from the inadequate service being provided and since private companies are motivated by growth year on year the companies will have to provide an increase in profits at the expense of something else leading to a race to the bottom on quality.
2. Insurance companies. As NHS services evaporate private companies will move in to fill the gaps meaning that the last remaining NHS services will be competed out of the market and even further evaporate making people more and more reliant on private healthcare and insurance which insurance companies stand to profit from hugely.
3. The very wealthy. In a universal healthcare system where no or little private healthcare exists the very wealthy have to use the same standard healthcare services that everyone has access to. In a system where there is competition (a nicer way of saying inequality) the very wealthy, who do not have to worry about the cost of healthcare, can potentially buy a higher quality, priority service with access to the best resources and medical professionals. Without this private system they cannot pay for the priority service. With the private system the cost of providing the priority service is that some people have no access to healthcare at all.
The Integrated Care Organisation
The main body of Mr Parry's talk was about the new "Integrated Care Organisation" which the Trust are planning to take effect from 1/4/11. There was a lot of spin and not much substance to Mr Parry's talk so I am unsure exactly what the effects of the ICO and eventual Foundation Trust status will be. When facing questions from the public it seemed Mr Parry was fairly unclear about this too. The main focus seems to be gaining Foundation Trust status although it was not adequately explained why this is so necessary.
The meeting was an "engagement" meeting rather than a consultation which I felt was difficult since what is proposed is a big change, shouldn't the public have a say?
The creation of the ICO, Mr Parry says, will;
I asked for an explanation and the response was basically "well the hospital want to become a Foundation Trust and your involvement could be anything from recieving newsletters to being actively involved, Jonathon will explain more in his talk". Since the box was on the registration form, you were required to decide before the talk was given. I thought this was poorly planned and this made me wonder if there is more to this "Foundation Trust" status than meets the eye. If the idea is so good why set people up to fail by putting the question about support on the registration form before you find out what the Foundation Trust is and decide whether you want to support it?
The idea behind a Foundation Trust is that it is meant to give the Hospital greater independence from central administration. It will be administrated by a board of Governors, the trusts are meant to be run mutually and are designed to be more accountable and involve local people and service users more in the operation of NHS services. There is no guarantee however how "mutual" the Foundation Trust will be or what targets and motivations will guide its operation. Localism in this way opens the door for privatisation and fragmentation and incentivises a "postcode lottery" by creating potential for huge differences in care, services and priorities between areas.
Currently, Foundation trusts are restricted in the number of private patients they can treat. The new Health and Social Care Bill, which is still at Committee Stage in The Commons seeks to end this restriction and supposedly free up Trusts to make an income from private care which they state Trusts can use to fund NHS services. These two things are, I suspect the "more than meets the eye". What will this actually mean? Clearly if NHS services are to be in competition with private services the private services have potential to be more profitable for the trust, especially when postioned against the heavy sanctions and fines for relatively common occurrences within NHS treatments which are often beyond the Trust's control or responsibility as detailed below.
The Health and Social Care Bill, according to Mr Parry's talk, seeks to fine Trusts for readmissions after elective procedures even if the readmission is unrelated or beyond the control of the hospital i.e. attributable to patients not taking prescribed medication e.t.c. Last year had those fines been in place the trust would have been fined £5m, Mr Parry stated. There will also be fines for patients staying longer than they are meant to in hospital and fines for not respecting privacy and dignity.
Fines for "elective procedures" will apply, not just to what some might imagine (optional procedures) but also to scheduled or planned procedures. Anything which is not an emergency is an "elective procedure" this will disencourage Trusts to provide anything but Emergency Care on the NHS as the sanctions appear to be so heavy and so unfair that it may become too risky to provide the service at all. This is even without taking into account the "patient tariffs" - how the new system will place a monetary value on services in order to make them competitive, mentioned by Mr Parry, that may mean it is no longer economically viable to provide certain types of care.
I was under the impression that when people stay longer in hospital than medically necessary it was because it was inappropriate to discharge them - they maybe had nowhere to go, possibly because they couldn't afford nursing home care or had an inappropriate home environment. So, given that a person's home circumstances are beyond the NHS's control and I believe many, specifically elderly people, are coming into hospital because their home circumstances are inappropriate in some way. Or alternatively, because of the increased chance of poor health and complications and the complexity of managing what is likely to be multiple complaints and conditions they have found that their home environment has become inappropriate whilst they are in hospital. How much can the NHS reasonably expect to change this situation? It seems it is another, large area of care - geriatrics, that will become too risky and too expensive to be provided on the NHS.
The fines for not respecting privacy and dignity, on the face of it seem great for patients. We are likely to be luckier than in some other places because our hospitals are relatively modern says Mr Parry. What is missing from this picture however is the context. Trusts are being asked to, in many cases, entirely redesign the layout and physical structures of their buildings. This costs money, money which has not been given to aid these changes. In fact, nationally the NHS, according to Mr Parry, is being cut by £20bn which, by my maths, is around £325 each for every man, woman, child, baby e.t.c. in the UK - a cut of 4.5% across all NHS services (again by my maths and assuming the cut is spread across 4 years). What this will mean is that if separate wards cannot be provided and privacy targets met, the service will be considered too risky and there will be a temptation not to provide it.
Going from Mr Parry's talk last night what this means is gaps in services. If the "patient tariff" is not in your favour, if your illness or pregnancy, is not profitable for the Trust to treat or manage because of sanctions/competition/patient tariffs then those services will not be provided. Mr Parry admits the system is modelled on US and European "evidence" but our health system is unique so how well does that evidence translate?
The fact that anyone would see the US system as desirable makes the mind boggle until you realise who does best. In a market driven "Health Economy", as Mr Parry puts it, i.e. not a universal healthcare system but one that provides services that are profitable rather than necessary, who are the winners and who are the losers?
Losers:
1. If we look at America's competitive free market "Health Economy" the vast majority of ordinary people are losers. In the USA the Government spends more on healthcare than in the UK, almost twice as much in fact, but do the patients get more? If we look at WHO statistics it would seem not. According to WHO, UK public healthcare (NHS) in 2006 cost 8.4% of GDP. In the same year it cost the USA (medicare, medicaid e.t.c.) 15.3% of GDP. In the UK the probabilty of dying between the ages of 15 and 60 is 98 in 1000 for men and 61 in 1000 for women. In the USA it is 137/1000 and 80/1000 respectively. Life expectancy at birth is slightly better in the UK too (2 years more for men, 1 for women). More children under five die in the US too - (6/1000 in UK, 8/1000 in the US). In the UK you can expect to be healthy for longer too - an extra 2 years for men and 1 year for women. If you look at the breakdown of WHO statistics in both the USA and over here you can see that as health spending has risen over time infant mortality has fallen. Time will tell whether cuts to health spending will have the converse effect.
Wikipedia says the WHO:
"in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[12][13] The Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among similar countries,[14] and notes U.S. care costs the most.[15]"
A damning article in USA Today (22/05/2002) builds on other things mentioned in the wikipedia article saying:
"Among the study's findings is a comparison of the uninsured with the insured:
- Uninsured people with colon or breast cancer face a 50% higher risk of death.
- Uninsured trauma victims are less likely to be admitted to the hospital, receive the full range of needed services, and are 37% more likely to die of their injuries.
- About 25% of adult diabetics without insurance for a year or more went without a checkup for two years. That boosts their risk of death, blindness and amputations resulting from poor circulation.
This article refers to an Institute of Medicine study from around that time that found, amongst other things, that over 18000 people per year die as a consequence of not having access to health insurance and therefore healthcare.
In 2010 the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act became US law, designed to protect patients, and public health from the adverse effects of their "Health Economy"'s free market. So America are trying to make patient care and public health more of a priority whilst the UK is trying to create a competitive "Health Economy" driven by competition and the market rather than health needs. America and the WHO seem to consider the American model of free market competition a failure.
There is a misconception sometimes that lack of adequate insurance is something which exclusively affects the poor. This is not true either. If the insurance company believes you are a risk, for any reason, then you will be charged a higher premium or be unable to get decent cover.
2. NHS services will be a big loser over here. The point of the NHS has never been to make a profit or be a financially viable business - it has been to provide healthcare services free at the point of use. This is designed to improve public health, wellbeing and standards of living. In a market system where patient care is given a monetary value rather than a quality/medical value this means public health will be compromised. We will no longer treat people when they are sick, or even before they become critical. We will provide emergency care and that is all, and people who cannot afford to travel or buy private health insurance will not have access to healthcare and people will die just like in the USA. It will be the end of the NHS, by very definition the Health Service will no longer be National because of the fragmentation caused by Foundation Trusts and the market economy approach potentially brought in by the Health and Social Care White Paper.
3. People living in rural areas, Children, the Elderly and the Vulnerable (the poor, deprived, mental health services e.t.c.). These areas of healthcare, which are often complex and costly and often require multi agency involvement, are the first things likely to go as they are labour intensive, complex, costly, time consuming and often unpredictable and will likely not fit well into the new "Health Economy"as profitable services.
4. Small Businesses. As private healthcare takes over from state provided universal healthcare businesses will be expected to provide healthcare for their employees as they do in the USA. This makes jobs with big multi-national wealthy corporations more attractive to prospective employees and will further strangle small businesses as they struggle to compete. Small businesses contribute more to the economy (pay higher rates of tax, promote local business communities, employ local people e.t.c.) whereas whatever profits big businesses make they tend to exploit cheap labour abroad and avoid/evade taxes which means less coming into the UK in emplyment terms as well as in potential tax.
Here is an interesting page about the benefits Universal Healthcare would bring to the USA - it is basically an argument to keep Universal Healthcare in the UK too:
http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm
Winners
1. Private healthcare companies. More NHS services will be outsourced to be provided by private companies as the NHS is put under pressure to do more with less. Like with hospital cleaning, the utility companies, social housing e.t.c. what we will see is a decline in the quality of the service and therefore even if the cost of the service decreases, which given the evidence is unlikely, the associated costs rise (associated costs of privatisation of hospital cleaning were the development of hospital superbugs). This will not stop private companies making a profit from the inadequate service being provided and since private companies are motivated by growth year on year the companies will have to provide an increase in profits at the expense of something else leading to a race to the bottom on quality.
2. Insurance companies. As NHS services evaporate private companies will move in to fill the gaps meaning that the last remaining NHS services will be competed out of the market and even further evaporate making people more and more reliant on private healthcare and insurance which insurance companies stand to profit from hugely.
3. The very wealthy. In a universal healthcare system where no or little private healthcare exists the very wealthy have to use the same standard healthcare services that everyone has access to. In a system where there is competition (a nicer way of saying inequality) the very wealthy, who do not have to worry about the cost of healthcare, can potentially buy a higher quality, priority service with access to the best resources and medical professionals. Without this private system they cannot pay for the priority service. With the private system the cost of providing the priority service is that some people have no access to healthcare at all.
The Integrated Care Organisation
The main body of Mr Parry's talk was about the new "Integrated Care Organisation" which the Trust are planning to take effect from 1/4/11. There was a lot of spin and not much substance to Mr Parry's talk so I am unsure exactly what the effects of the ICO and eventual Foundation Trust status will be. When facing questions from the public it seemed Mr Parry was fairly unclear about this too. The main focus seems to be gaining Foundation Trust status although it was not adequately explained why this is so necessary.
The meeting was an "engagement" meeting rather than a consultation which I felt was difficult since what is proposed is a big change, shouldn't the public have a say?
The creation of the ICO, Mr Parry says, will;
- Move care into the community and patient's homes.
- Provide integrated care
- Saves resources
- Meet the targets set out by the Health and Social Care Bill
- Improve services
The benefits he believes, as seen in Europe and the US are as follows;
- Continuity of Care
- Care in the community and home
- Reduced length of hospital stay
- Smaller waiting times
- Uniform services - evening out services across country boundaries
They also plan to introduce a new IT system to make medical records available in real time to hospitals, community services and Social services. He says GPs are keen on this system and it would reduce paper waste. It was asked how patient confidentiality and privacy would be respected and whether patients would be given an opportunity to opt out of the system. Mr Parry's response was that he wasn't sure of the specific legal duties involved but they would be considered in the planning. My concern would be mainly around the security of the information. By making the information available for use they potentially compromise confidentiality and privacy. Should Social Services really be allowed to indiscriminately access any medical record they like for example? The benefits to the healthcare profession are fairly clear but what are the benefits to patients and do they outstrip the costs?
They want to introduce a forum called the "Clinical Senate". A question was asked about whether there was space on this for a patient representative and Mr Parry said he believed so. The clinical forum will be made up of representatives from all healthcare providers and Social Services.
They want to become a Foundation Trust by 1/4/13 which is why the introduction of the ICO is happening so quickly.
Mr Parry says the Trust must make a 4% saving this year followed by a 5% saving (-£8m) next year. This will mean cutbacks in beds, which was clarified by a question from the audience from one of the doctors saying the trust were planning to cut the number of wards from 6 to 3 - a 50% reduction, but not cutbacks in Community Care. This could mean reductions in frontline staff and compulsary redundancies. It could also mean service closures although it is too early to say where any of these redundancies or closures could happen.
Mr Parry said the Trust had been consulting the medical staff about the changes but was unable to satisfactorily answer a question about how the staff felt about the changes and whether they had concerns about risks to patients and worries about patient safety. He said the clinicians felt "down" but would not answer whether they felt the changes would affect safety and efficacy.
When questioned Mr Parry also stated that although the "Health and Social Care Bill" was still being considered by Parliament and so these changes might be a bit early since the white paper was not yet law, it was "a white paper" and it would become law. This seems a little inadequate as an answer. Whilst it is very important for the public to try and protect services from big changes, this seems quite radical considering the legislation is not yet passed and could be massively amended or not made into law meaning Mr Parry and the Trust might have to reconsider their plans.
A question was asked about the Trust's marketing budget in the face of the new "Health Economy". Would money be being spent on marketing instead of medicine in order to attract patients and generate income? Mr Parry's answer was that the marketing would be targetted to the type of patients the trust would profit from and would not be indiscriminate. This clearly confirms the worry that less profitable services might disappear.
Mr Parry, when questioned, answered that he came into the NHS because he believed healthcare should be responsive to the needs of the patients but that cost was also important.
The overwhelming feeling I came away with was, if this is such a great way of doing things - cheaper and better, why isn't it being used now? If it was so good why, when it was used in the past, is it not still being used? If people can be sent home earlier why aren't they being sent home earlier now? If these things are within the scope of the NHS why are they not already standard practice? My knowledge and experience about length of stay in hospitals says the patients that stay longer stay longer because they have nowhere else to go - there is no current incentive for hospitals to keep patients longer than they need to as far as I am aware and it, I believe is being done with the patient's needs in mind.
The Integrated Care Organisation isn't a new system it has been used in the past. How Jonathon Parry portrays it - all things wonderful with no drawbacks, saving money, providing better care, just seems too good to be true. That combined with his lack of knowledge about what services might be lost but a feeling that jobs and services may go e.t.c. makes me worry. Now is not the time for spin. We want to know what is going on and how our services will change. The news of ward closures and the reductions in beds and staff and the lack of reassurance about how the clinicians feel is also worrying.
Wednesday, 9 March 2011
Agenda for the SACC regular meeting 14/3/11
It should also be noted that Conservative Councillor Peter Papworth has said he will attend this meeting and Sefton Central MP Bill Esterson is going to do his best to come too.
Agenda SACC Regular Meeting.
The Windmill, Southport
Monday 14/3/11
8pm
Minutes from the last regular meeting and meeting with Ms Carney approved (councillor's minutes approved too if we have them) 8pm (5 mins)
Some additions and changes have been submitted for approval. The proposed changes and the minutes of both meetings are on the blog also appendix a and appendix b.
Matters arising from the minutes of the last meeting 8.05pm (5 mins)
Committee roles and libraries is dealt with by agenda item number 5, report back about FOI requests.
The meetings with Council Leaders and Margaret Carney. 8.10pm (10mins)
Feedback, what went well, what could be done better. Plan going forward for a meeting with Sefton MPs – John Pugh, Bill Esterson and Joe Benton.
Judicial review of the budget, we are going to press ahead with calling for one. 8.20pm (5mins)
There have been no public consultations and allegedly "inadequate" (according to Peter Dowd) impact assessments. Celia and Kat investigating this with solicitors, Kat’s tutor and the Public Law Project.
SACC Committee Roles and reaching out. 8.25pm (15 mins)
Where are we up to with filling roles and setting up committees? Possibility of encouraging other Sefton anti-cuts groups. Ainsdale library “friends” can we encourage other “friends” groups not just for libraries?
Report back about NHS Consultation meeting. 8.40pm (10 mins)
From those of us who attended. What is happening with NHS, the future of services in Southport and Sefton.
Any other business. 8.50pm
Appendix a.
Minutes 14/2/11
SACC meeting Monday 14 February 2011
Minutes
1. Apologies for absence received from Celia Watson, Danny McGowan and David Evans
2. Matters arising from the minutes of the last meeting
It was asked to be noted that Sefton Council don’t set the business rates for Southport and that Jean Gould is not a trainer for Carers UK. Also, the minutes gave the impression that Celia was at the meeting when she was not.
3. Committee roles
It was thought that we should split into small committees to mirror the council Cabinet. The committees are Children’s Services, Corporate Services, Environmental, Communities, Leisure and Tourism, Performance and Governance, Regeneration, Health & Social Care, Technical Services. The role of the committee members would be to dig about to find what each department at the council is doing, to be the go-to person for that area for the main SACC group, and to seek out other groups working against cuts in those areas and work with them
Eg Leisure Services would deal with pollution washed up onto Southport shore from drilling rigs.
Corporate Services would look at the way private contracts are handed out.
One or two people in each area should be responsible for the minutiae and report back to the central group. The dialogue with other groups is becoming too much for Kat to handle on her own so others need to take that on. Stuart will contact Southport CARES as Kat has not heard back from them for a while.
It was felt that there were not enough people at the meeting to fill the nine committees so Kat is going to try to encourage other contributors who may be suitable for the roles to attend future meetings and form the sub-committees. She will do a list of each committee, who might be suitable and the contacts she already has.
No contacts in Technical Services – maybe Mr Waldon or Dave Marron at the council could help.
How often will committees meet? Monthly, a couple of weeks before main SACC meeting.
Nina expressed interest in Children’s Services and Health & Social Care. Perhaps Gemma or Sarah from Save Sefton’s Children’s Centres could lead Children’s committee.
Phil Riley – Corporate Services
Environmental – Greens? Kat will approach them.
Regeneration – Tom?
Communities would involve charities, community groups and community spirit.
Committees would get a main strategy from SACC then organise themselves. We pick up local issues and put pressure on the council, to help constructively and maybe use national umbrella anti-cuts groups or Taxpayers Alliance.
Strategies – to enter dialogue with representatives at local council level and national government level. It was felt that we could do more locally and it may be too much to ask others to travel to London, for example. Maybe better to effect change through our MP/council. Everyone should do what they are comfortable with.
4. Other matters
The youth centres group will put in petition and make speech to council cabinet on 24 Jan. Will also make speech to council on March 3. You need 2790 signatures to go to full council and further 25 to go to Cabinet. Is that democratic? They keep changing the rules. Nina will put in a Freedom Of Information request: What are the rules regarding submission of petitions to the council? What are the powers to change those rules, how much notice should the public have; what is the Code of Practice.
Lots of people are taking voluntary redundancy from the council in March so some contacts may go. Look out for people being re-employed by the council after taking redundancy. Our contacts are more usually union officials in council workplaces who feel happier to speak. But it may be better to focus on things that are in the public domain so as not to expose contacts.
A motion was put forward by Phil, seconded by Tom, for ideas for defending our public libraries. Eg in Churchtown could the library be put in the museum to save both?
Appendix b
Minutes from the meeting with Margaret Carney
I (Kat) have the following amendments:
Question number 1 from Liz Ford was read by Anthony Molyneux as Liz was not able to attend. The right to reply was also given to him.
Chris Burgess was not able to attend either so question 3 was read by Nina.
Peter Bamford was also unable to attend so question 4 was also read by Nina.
Question 5 by Tom Thomson was altered slightly on the evening. Although I'm not entirely sure what Tom actually said Margaret's answer is to the original question and the addition was treated as the "right of reply"
Question 12 from Lillian Wright was read by Dave Bridge and the right of reply was also passed to him since Lillian also could not attend on the night.
For interest - After the meeting Celia and I counted the money - £80 went to pay the balance on the room. I donated the £20 deposit that I had paid previously which left £57 to be shared between SWACA and Parenting 2000. This was not part of the meeting however so perhaps should not be included officially in the minutes.
"SACC Meeting with Margaret Carney
Minutes
15/2/11
8pm
The Royal Clifton
Kat Sumner: Hello all, and welcome to our meeting with Margaret Carney, Sefton Council’s Chief Executive. I am Kat Sumner and I Chair the Southport Anti-Cuts Coalition. We are very grateful to Ms Carney for agreeing to this meeting at a time when the council is under considerable pressure from all sides. I hope that it will be one of a series of opportunities to unify the public and Sefton Council. We want this to be an opportunity for the people to get some insight into the council’s operations and also to build a more positive and communicative relationship with the council.
SACC itself is an independent, open group, all our meetings are public meetings and we do not have any formal membership. We are committed to positive action as well as the exposure and opposition of unfair cuts. We want to be able to work with people to find positive solutions. The first step towards this is finding out how the land lies - what proposals are being made, how they are identified and presented to the Full Council for voting, how the public have been consulted before the matters are put to council and how things are prioritised as well as how the council’s funding is changing.
We have noticed that there is an identifiable level of anger amongst residents of Sefton about the way the cuts seem to be being proposed and where they seem to be being identified. It is also noted that many people I have encountered personally speak very favourably about Ms Carney in her role as Chief Executive. We understand that she has no real role in making the decisions, rather this is the role of the elected councillors.
We also understand that part of what is being expressed by the public, is commonly that they feel they are being excluded and the proposals are being identified and put to council very quickly and without, it is felt, enough public input. Rumour is rife and people involved in sectors or projects which are threatened are worried about the future. SACC would like to address this point with the part of the council which is responsible and feel this falls more appropriately under the Chief Executive’s department whose remit is to oversee the gathering of information, making proposals for savings, categorising of proposals, conducting of public consultations and presenting of reviews of departments to Full Council for voting and for decisions to be made.
We plan to hold a meeting with the Council’s elected Political Leaders, subject to their agreement and timetable, where public questions of a political nature will be answered. I would always ask that anyone attending a meeting be respectful and polite throughout any meeting that we hold. For this meeting particularly, please understand that Ms Carney who is not an elected representative, is accountable to the councillors rather than directly to the public and it is her free choice, rather than her responsibility, to attend the meeting today - which we very much appreciate.
Please do not compromise Ms Carney. If she is unable to answer your question please respect this and SACC will endeavour to obtain an answer for you from another more appropriate channel. It is our responsibility to behave in a way that is conducive to consultation.
Thank you, I will now pass you over to Ms Carney who will present a short introductory speech followed by 60 minutes of planned questions and a short period for open questions.
MARGARET CARNEY:
Normally I would start by saying I am pleased to be here, but none of us are pleased to be here because of the nature of what we are trying to deal with. The chances are there are things you would like me to answer, but I can only focus on facts, not political comment. If there is anything I can’t answer tonight I would be happy to find them for you later.
£600 million a year is the council’s budget, but the amount the council directly spends is £230 million the rest is spent for the council on things like schools, Merseytravel and Merseywaste. Of that £230 million over half is spent on adult and child social care. Three quarters of the budget comes from government, the rest from council tax. The council must legally set a balanced budget by March 10; we can’t say we are not going to do that. I have a responsibility to make sure that it is balanced and expenditure equals income. We can’t legally borrow to fund day to day services; we can only borrow to fund investment. When we set the budget (this year) the amount we receive will have gone down by £30 million from April 2010 to April 2011. On top of that, spending pressures mean we need to spend an extra £14 million on things like an aging population and more children in care, so that is an extra £14 million we need to save. So that equals £44 million to cut. Next year based on the government spending review a further £20 million needs to be saved on top, which is a total £64 to be cut; a total of 30% of our controllable budget. So it is not just about the size of the cuts it’s the pace. By June 2010 we needed to make a reduction of £6 million. In October we were given indicative totals of £38 million, in December when we finally knew how much money we would have it gave us only 3 to 4 months to identify and implement the cuts. We had to decide what was most important and it’s hard choices. If we asked around this room what’s most important we’d have a range of responses, and none of them are wrong. Councillors have made these decisons and they have not been made lightly. We have tried to minimise the impact, but we can’t take that amount out without people noticing. I would have loved to have 18 months for consultation, but we have not had that opportunity. You would be the judge of whether (the cuts) are right or not, and you are entitled to do that.
Submitted questions
1. Liz Ford:
If the budget constraint is coming directly from Central Government, what are the council doing to make the case for Sefton with Central Government? For example, in order to protect services, have Sefton applied for any money from the emergency fund, which has been mentioned by the DCLG in the press (The Guardian, Society, 13/12/10)? Also, what problems have Sefton encountered when identifying proposals for cuts and savings?
MC: I wrote to the prime minister and the deputy prime minister outlining our concerns about the process. I am in regular contact with the 3 MPs from Sefton, I briefed John Pugh (Southport MP) on Friday. (Ms Carney said she was also in touch with the Local Authority Association and the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives which she is a member. )
The emergency fund is not something you apply to, it is something you become eligible for, and Sefton is not.
Antony, who read out Liz’s question, asked whether the council would consider doing what Liverpool socialist councillors did in the 80s – break the law and oppose the government for the moral good. She said that isn’t something she has considered, saying ‘as an officer of the council I have a legal responsibility and will stick with that’.
2. David Wilding:
Why have Youth Centres been identified as a proposed area to make savings? I don’t believe our children should suffer, ultimately because of the sins of the bankers.
MC: We have to find £44 million for the 3rd March, we have had to prioritise services. Officers have tiered services. Universal services versus targeted services for vulnerable. Youth services are considered by us to be universal and not part of the essential services. The council is in touch with schools about using their facilities to run more groups, some do very well, some could do more. Going to do a review at some point to see if impacting vulnerable young people too much.
3. Chris Burgess (youth centres):
With the imminent closure of Youth Service provision within Sefton (especially affecting North Sefton), the delayed closure of Sure Start Family Centres the cutting back of leisure services including the free and active initiative and the removal of Children's A & E in Sefton, just what does Sefton Council offer the young people of the borough?
Already, this group of sefton citizens who are more politically aware than the Council leaders give them credit for, are demonised as being nothing but trouble and are often the targets of residents nimbyism - really will have nothing to do and nowhere to go.
MC: The children’s centres are subject to review, (couldn’t talk much about it therefore).
Schools can provide a key role in extended provision.
We do want to provide services, it is just priorities.
4. Peter Bamford:
Why is there no charge for parking at Crosby Baths and Burbo Bank (for Anthony Gormleys 'Another Place')? Yet there is a charge at Dunes Leisure Centre in Southport and an 8am - 8pm charge on Southport sea front? This is costing the council at least £1 milion per annum in lost revenue. Also, why is there a major reduction to park at Bootle Strand on a sunday (70p all day) yet no similar reduction in a major shopping centre like Southport?
MC: There is a charge for Splashworld but it is refunded for 2 hours for users. The estimate is £100,000 not £1million – but still worthwhile. Will consider that in May. Bootle carpark does not operate on a Sunday, (wonders if there is confusion with another carpark operated by the shopping centre).
5. Tom Thompson
Why are business rates so high in the Southport area compared to Liverpool and Preston? How are Sefton going to incentivise regeneration of Southport Town Centre when rates are comparatively high?
MC: The council does not set the business rates, they are set nationally by HMRC. We collect them and they are paid to the government. In terms of the regeneration, we don’t own much rental property. Rates are set up by private landlords – we have met with retailers – where we can identify the landlords which can be difficult as often owned by pension funds overseas. Meeting with leading businessmen to see how we can work together.
Planning jobs and skills, need to balance need around regional, sub-regional and national. Money schemes are no longer there – ran out (e.g. capital of culture money pots)
Other way to ensure that the economy keeps going in this difficult time.
Open invitation. Local business want to be involved, more than happy to invite you.
Redundancy effect – 51% of people working in Sefton work for the public sectors. The government hopes the private sector will pick it up but there will be a time lag.
6. Gemma Brannan (Save Our Children’s Centres):
If you are receiving the Early Years Intervention Grant, yet you are proposing to close the Children’s Centres - where is the money then going to go?
MC: We are not proposing to close them, they are under review. There is some confusion about this grant, it is quite complicated. In 2010-2011 it should have been £15.1 million – it is made up of money we used to receive anyway. It has been reduced to £11.3m, a £3.8m/25% reduction. The government say it hasn’t reduced it but I know what comes in and out. But we are putting more in than that would indicate. I’m happy to go through those figures with you.
(Gemma asked then why John Pugh has told her the council IS getting the grant if in fact they are not)
I have briefed John Pugh and he is taking those figures to the government. I have seen documents that we are not getting it, John Pugh has letters that we are.
7. Jim Ford:
The town of Southport has in recent years lost or is about to lose in the name of “Sefton” the following local services:-
1. 1.The planning department
2. 2. Building Regulations dept
3. 3. Environmental Health
4. 4. Law Courts
5. 5. Botanic Gardens Museum
6. 6. Birkdale, Ainsdale and Churchtown libraries
7. 7. Our local history service (remember that the history of Southport which is on the Ribble is quite distinct from that of Crosby which is on the Mersey)
8. 8. Gritting/snowploughing
In most cases these services have been “centralized” into various parts of “South Sefton” the centre of which is located over twenty miles from our town. Now we appear to be losing “our” allocation of Youth and Sure Start Centres, whilst those in South Sefton are preserved.
How has Sefton analysed the impact of the current programme of cuts to ensure that these do not fall disproportionately on our town, which is 20 miles distant from the centre of South Sefton (ie Bootle Crosby and Maghull) where Sefton services are increasingly being centralized. What is the outcome of the geographical impact assessment which Sefton Council has carried out to ensure equity and that our town is not disproportionately experiencing cuts across a range of services and that cuts are fairly distributed across the Borough of Sefton.”
MC: No we haven’t carried out geographical impact assessments – but we carry out quality impact assessments.
Will be going to be available on website soon.
Demographics not geography.
We will identify where the geographical impacts will fall –
Some things hit Southport – others hit elsewhere in Sefton – hitting everyone. Southport has an ageing population, south Sefton has a younger population – services depend on those factors.
Happy to share analyses.
Happy to develop neighbourhood approaches.
What we have been developing as a process to make that happen –(Ms Carney spoke about the Area Partnership – to bring together people interested in Southport, Formby, and we see how our resources can be used)
Needs of Formby very different to Southport and Bootle.
Children’s centres – not true that all the south Sefton centres are safe – they are being looked at too. Youth services etc which are run by voluntary and faith groups with funding from the council has been under review.
Q: Can we have a town council not a toothless area committee?
Ms Carney refused to answer on the basis that it is political – said take up with councillors.
8. Blyth Crawford:
What consideration has been given to advising the council to overspend to reduce the impact of cuts? Is there any suggestion that other authorities might take this option?
MC: We have net savings – the cabinet has a full report. Tried to identify all the money we put aside for other projects.
To deliver those savings will have to make people redundant.
But some people will be disappointed if thought going to get something (funds) – but needs to be reprioritised.
Frontloading – trying to smooth out.
Details on what money has been found and what it can be spent on instead:
One-off resources to do that.
£12 million from reappraisal from insurance.
Ms Carney said they have already taken out money from rainy day pots – and money set aside for future projects – reassessments of needs is greater to go to things like social care.
9. Phil Riley:
Does Ms Carney have an estimate of the cost to Sefton of the proposed redundancies and the additional pension costs arising from early retirements associated with the redundancies. As things stand these will all fall in 2011/12 and it will impact on the level of service that can be provided by Sefton. Has Sefton also assessed the impact of the redundancies on the local economy?
MC: Very difficult to know how much redundancy will cost – as each individual circumstances are different. Our best estimate is £3 million in current financial year because have been voluntary scheme for 12 to 18 months. Margin of error is huge, £10m.
We will work with private sector – government’s approach to make up shortfall – if that is possible we want to maximise it. Govt have set up a regional growth fund, and we will use that as much as we can. The next couple of years will be tough. About job cuts now, private sector will take time.
We will continue to work regionally and nationally – investment opportunities, job opportunities outside of Sefton. Help people find work.
It will have an impact on Sefton - significant one
10. Maureen Whalley:
Margaret, can you let us know what is going to happen to the "Growing Business" at Park Lodge on Rotten Row? This enterprise is Front Line and involves adults with learning difficulties, who grow and produce
plants for sale to the general public. It does a sterling job and has
been going many years. It gets adults with learning difficulties into
other employments. As the Authority is thinking of cutting the staff
at Botanic gardens I would like an answer to my question.
MC: I agree it is a fantastic scheme we should be looking to replicate. It is currently run with money from the Big Lottery Fund not council money, (but we will try to involve local colleges to try to support it)
11. John Corscaden (Sefton Carers Forum):
If the Council believes in consultation then why ignore the findings when the majority vote against a proposal, leaving the feeling that never mind what you think/want we will do it anyway.
MC: In terms of the current position, we haven’t always been able to follow the comprehensive consultation process we’d like to. It’s a consultation not a referendum so it’s not always what the decision is going to be. It’s our general approach (to follow the consultation results) but we are not always going to be able to do that. We are currently consulting in libraries over opening hours. We will still try to engage. With the Botanic Gardens having gone through the process we amended it to still deliver some savings, but with not as extensive cuts.
(John asked specifically about Specialised Transport Services)
When you are consulting about increasing charges, the answer is going to be no, that would be my response too. It will be put before the elected members.
12. Lillian Wright:
Ms Carney, there was an article in The Visiter on Friday (4/2/11) where you empathised with the drastic reduction in frontline staff. I understand we pay you £150,000 per annum plus expenses and your pension contributions. How much did the councillors from Southport wards claim from Sefton Council in the tax year up to march 2010 in expenses and allowances? Does this include travel and pension contributions? Can we expect a reduction in your salary and perks and in your fellow councillor’s salaries and perks? You are after all a public servant. What are you doing to manage by example?
MC: I empathised with all staff, those that will lose their jobs and those who will have very different roles on new terms and conditions. There will be a major reduction in staff, some frontline, 30% senior managers. In 2009/10 Southport councillors claimed £350,000 in allowances. I am proud to be a public servant. Although I do have a big salary I have a passion for public service and have had for 30 years. I have already taken a voluntary reduction in my salary, and I have never claimed expenses from the council. I’m doing my job working tirelessly to support the council, I have adapted to minimise the impact, I have been covering the Finance Officer’s job for the past year saving the council £100,000, and been visibly supporting staff, out in the community to advise community members about minimising the impact. My commitment to public service is undeniable.
13. Nina Killen (secretary of SACC):
Newcastle City Council has signed up to protocol to avoid compulsory
redundancies. Has Sefton Council looked into how they are managing
this and considered doing the same? What surpluses are available eg in schools and how are they being used? Has the council considered borrowing to make more money available?
MC: We’d love to say no redundancies and we have tried to put things in place to mitigate compulsory redundancies. There’s no protocol but we are working closely with trade unions. We’ve had a volunmtary redundancy scheme in place for 18mths, a jobs freeze and a bump redundancy scheme where if someone wants to go they can replaced by someone else who may otherwise have been made redundant. That person leaves and the other moves into their role. We have not been totally successful but are trying to do anything we can.
School surplus - £12m, that’s down by £3m. Schools can retain 8% of budget (Primaries, special schools), 5% (secondaries). Anything above that goes to the Schools Forum. Legally that money can only be used for school-based spending. We are working closely with schools - some of them have fantastic facilities that may become available for wider public use.
Questions developing from regular SACC meetings:
14. Have Environmental and human rights impacts been considered and Equality Impact Assessments and public consultations been conducted for each proposal sent to full council? How is this being done?
MC: We do high impact assessments when you go through decommissioning, we monitor the effects of that. Any discrimination we will go and consider. All our analysis will be available on the website soon.
15. How are you following the COMPACT guidelines, which guide the partnership between the public sector and the charitable and voluntary sectors, when proposing savings?
MC: We do have a compact agreement.
We want to make sure it’s valuable.
It protects many valuable voluntary and faith sector schemes, but not to say that they have not suffered a reduction. The report in January had a full analysis of the reductions and reasons.
16. How have you approached making proposals to Full Council - what criteria has been used to identify where cuts and savings can be made?
MC: Working with a short timescale, as soon as we knew we started the consultation. We tell staff that their service is under consideration, but we are not able to say a decision has been made. As soon as a decision has been made we try to go face to face with the staff to outline the full decision and go into the full consultation process.
17. Was there any public consultation or consultation with staff at the children’s centres and the Botanic Gardens before proposals for savings were sent to Full Council?
Not answered – as felt already addressed.
On to open questions. Kat reminded audience that in order for everyone to be able to have a chance to speak it was necessary to behave respectfully and there should be no disruptions or people would be asked to leave.
OPEN QUESTIONS
Can you manipulate ring-fenced funding to use the money elsewhere?
MC: First priority is to identify critical frontline services that we have to provide by law. The majority of budget is schools, and they set their own budget. Merseywaste? These budgets are unlikely to come back to the council. Where we can, whether contracts are up for renewal or not, we are negotiating on price and quantity.
2. Reducing the numbers of councillors
MC: Reducing the number of councillors was considered last year, didn’t decide to go ahead. Means that can’t be looked at that again for several years.
3. ‘Politically correct’ roles – are they going to be scrapped to save money – like equality posts?
MC. Depends what you call politically correct – that could be someone else’s idea of ensuring access. To make sure that vulnerable people have equal access to services, to me, is not politically correct. But, yes, any non-essential roles have been reviewed and will go.
Q: What about Traffic calming measures, cycling? Are they being held off for the time being?
MC: I will take that back to the council.
3. How much has Sefton paid to outside private consultants this year?
MC: Private consultants will only be used where they don’t have the necessary skills inside the council, or where it is cheaper to use them. Any proposal to use them goes through a panel and only when there is no alternative are they used. – they must be cost effective.
4. Market regeneration – could it be scrapped because it is too expensive. When there are loads of empty shops?
MC: Take that back to council.
5. Jonathon Allan (UNISON): 51% of people working in Sefton work for public services. For every £1 they earn they spend 61p in the local authority. It is vital for people in public services that the jobs are kept; we are seeing the decimation of local government. £44 million this year to save, and £20 million next year, it is right to the bone, next year is going to be unbelievable. Eric Pickles talks about the indulgance of local government, we are not going to sit back while they abuse public sector workers. I don’t care who caused this situation, whether it was the bankers or the last Labour government, I just know it was not one public sector worker.
6. After the atrocious dealing with the snow last Christmas, how can we have confidence in you and the council to lead this process?
MC: It is difficult, only you can say whether you have confidence. The people who care the most about public services are helping to manage this process through, none of us wants to be here. What we are doing is unpalatable.
I hold my hands up, and apologise again for the snow – we have had the first stage of the review and will continue with the review.
I hope to prove to you that you can have confidence in me, but depending on your own view that can be difficult.
7. Behind these cuts are people and families. I have been a carer for my son for 38 years, and we are terrified about what we are hearing. Consultationshould be not be wishy washy, you are only half doing it. And the rumours that go round, they create panic.
Carers save the country £80 billion a year it is estimated. Do you really have a moral obligation to ensure these services continue, I think you do. Every year you have some story about why our services are being cut, though we know this year is different?
MC: Communication: we do need to get better. It was being said that New Directions was going to be closed but it wasn’t going to close. There are resources in the faith sector that could be called upon. I have political restriction, it is a condition of my employment. It is important for me to maintain political neutrality.
9. Young people – got 7,000 signatures. Why closing youth centres when £6 million is being spent on shops in Maghull. Youth being attacked everywhere, tuition fees, EMA, unemployment – being ostracised. We need the youth workers – not just the centres – they are the ones that encourage us.
MC: Didn’t have any details of spending in Maghull, didn’t think it was council spending. Petitions are an important part of the democractic process – I attended the youth parliament elections. Two petitions were presented at the last council meeting – it’s a decision for elected members but it will give you an opportunity for accountability.
It wasn’t clear how much money has been raised but Celia thought we had definitely made enough to cover the room hire (£100). Kat thanked everyone for coming, especially Ms Carney."
Agenda SACC Regular Meeting.
The Windmill, Southport
Monday 14/3/11
8pm
Minutes from the last regular meeting and meeting with Ms Carney approved (councillor's minutes approved too if we have them) 8pm (5 mins)
Some additions and changes have been submitted for approval. The proposed changes and the minutes of both meetings are on the blog also appendix a and appendix b.
Matters arising from the minutes of the last meeting 8.05pm (5 mins)
Committee roles and libraries is dealt with by agenda item number 5, report back about FOI requests.
The meetings with Council Leaders and Margaret Carney. 8.10pm (10mins)
Feedback, what went well, what could be done better. Plan going forward for a meeting with Sefton MPs – John Pugh, Bill Esterson and Joe Benton.
Judicial review of the budget, we are going to press ahead with calling for one. 8.20pm (5mins)
There have been no public consultations and allegedly "inadequate" (according to Peter Dowd) impact assessments. Celia and Kat investigating this with solicitors, Kat’s tutor and the Public Law Project.
SACC Committee Roles and reaching out. 8.25pm (15 mins)
Where are we up to with filling roles and setting up committees? Possibility of encouraging other Sefton anti-cuts groups. Ainsdale library “friends” can we encourage other “friends” groups not just for libraries?
Report back about NHS Consultation meeting. 8.40pm (10 mins)
From those of us who attended. What is happening with NHS, the future of services in Southport and Sefton.
Any other business. 8.50pm
Appendix a.
Minutes 14/2/11
SACC meeting Monday 14 February 2011
Minutes
1. Apologies for absence received from Celia Watson, Danny McGowan and David Evans
2. Matters arising from the minutes of the last meeting
It was asked to be noted that Sefton Council don’t set the business rates for Southport and that Jean Gould is not a trainer for Carers UK. Also, the minutes gave the impression that Celia was at the meeting when she was not.
3. Committee roles
It was thought that we should split into small committees to mirror the council Cabinet. The committees are Children’s Services, Corporate Services, Environmental, Communities, Leisure and Tourism, Performance and Governance, Regeneration, Health & Social Care, Technical Services. The role of the committee members would be to dig about to find what each department at the council is doing, to be the go-to person for that area for the main SACC group, and to seek out other groups working against cuts in those areas and work with them
Eg Leisure Services would deal with pollution washed up onto Southport shore from drilling rigs.
Corporate Services would look at the way private contracts are handed out.
One or two people in each area should be responsible for the minutiae and report back to the central group. The dialogue with other groups is becoming too much for Kat to handle on her own so others need to take that on. Stuart will contact Southport CARES as Kat has not heard back from them for a while.
It was felt that there were not enough people at the meeting to fill the nine committees so Kat is going to try to encourage other contributors who may be suitable for the roles to attend future meetings and form the sub-committees. She will do a list of each committee, who might be suitable and the contacts she already has.
No contacts in Technical Services – maybe Mr Waldon or Dave Marron at the council could help.
How often will committees meet? Monthly, a couple of weeks before main SACC meeting.
Nina expressed interest in Children’s Services and Health & Social Care. Perhaps Gemma or Sarah from Save Sefton’s Children’s Centres could lead Children’s committee.
Phil Riley – Corporate Services
Environmental – Greens? Kat will approach them.
Regeneration – Tom?
Communities would involve charities, community groups and community spirit.
Committees would get a main strategy from SACC then organise themselves. We pick up local issues and put pressure on the council, to help constructively and maybe use national umbrella anti-cuts groups or Taxpayers Alliance.
Strategies – to enter dialogue with representatives at local council level and national government level. It was felt that we could do more locally and it may be too much to ask others to travel to London, for example. Maybe better to effect change through our MP/council. Everyone should do what they are comfortable with.
4. Other matters
The youth centres group will put in petition and make speech to council cabinet on 24 Jan. Will also make speech to council on March 3. You need 2790 signatures to go to full council and further 25 to go to Cabinet. Is that democratic? They keep changing the rules. Nina will put in a Freedom Of Information request: What are the rules regarding submission of petitions to the council? What are the powers to change those rules, how much notice should the public have; what is the Code of Practice.
Lots of people are taking voluntary redundancy from the council in March so some contacts may go. Look out for people being re-employed by the council after taking redundancy. Our contacts are more usually union officials in council workplaces who feel happier to speak. But it may be better to focus on things that are in the public domain so as not to expose contacts.
A motion was put forward by Phil, seconded by Tom, for ideas for defending our public libraries. Eg in Churchtown could the library be put in the museum to save both?
Appendix b
Minutes from the meeting with Margaret Carney
I (Kat) have the following amendments:
Question number 1 from Liz Ford was read by Anthony Molyneux as Liz was not able to attend. The right to reply was also given to him.
Chris Burgess was not able to attend either so question 3 was read by Nina.
Peter Bamford was also unable to attend so question 4 was also read by Nina.
Question 5 by Tom Thomson was altered slightly on the evening. Although I'm not entirely sure what Tom actually said Margaret's answer is to the original question and the addition was treated as the "right of reply"
Question 12 from Lillian Wright was read by Dave Bridge and the right of reply was also passed to him since Lillian also could not attend on the night.
For interest - After the meeting Celia and I counted the money - £80 went to pay the balance on the room. I donated the £20 deposit that I had paid previously which left £57 to be shared between SWACA and Parenting 2000. This was not part of the meeting however so perhaps should not be included officially in the minutes.
"SACC Meeting with Margaret Carney
Minutes
15/2/11
8pm
The Royal Clifton
Kat Sumner: Hello all, and welcome to our meeting with Margaret Carney, Sefton Council’s Chief Executive. I am Kat Sumner and I Chair the Southport Anti-Cuts Coalition. We are very grateful to Ms Carney for agreeing to this meeting at a time when the council is under considerable pressure from all sides. I hope that it will be one of a series of opportunities to unify the public and Sefton Council. We want this to be an opportunity for the people to get some insight into the council’s operations and also to build a more positive and communicative relationship with the council.
SACC itself is an independent, open group, all our meetings are public meetings and we do not have any formal membership. We are committed to positive action as well as the exposure and opposition of unfair cuts. We want to be able to work with people to find positive solutions. The first step towards this is finding out how the land lies - what proposals are being made, how they are identified and presented to the Full Council for voting, how the public have been consulted before the matters are put to council and how things are prioritised as well as how the council’s funding is changing.
We have noticed that there is an identifiable level of anger amongst residents of Sefton about the way the cuts seem to be being proposed and where they seem to be being identified. It is also noted that many people I have encountered personally speak very favourably about Ms Carney in her role as Chief Executive. We understand that she has no real role in making the decisions, rather this is the role of the elected councillors.
We also understand that part of what is being expressed by the public, is commonly that they feel they are being excluded and the proposals are being identified and put to council very quickly and without, it is felt, enough public input. Rumour is rife and people involved in sectors or projects which are threatened are worried about the future. SACC would like to address this point with the part of the council which is responsible and feel this falls more appropriately under the Chief Executive’s department whose remit is to oversee the gathering of information, making proposals for savings, categorising of proposals, conducting of public consultations and presenting of reviews of departments to Full Council for voting and for decisions to be made.
We plan to hold a meeting with the Council’s elected Political Leaders, subject to their agreement and timetable, where public questions of a political nature will be answered. I would always ask that anyone attending a meeting be respectful and polite throughout any meeting that we hold. For this meeting particularly, please understand that Ms Carney who is not an elected representative, is accountable to the councillors rather than directly to the public and it is her free choice, rather than her responsibility, to attend the meeting today - which we very much appreciate.
Please do not compromise Ms Carney. If she is unable to answer your question please respect this and SACC will endeavour to obtain an answer for you from another more appropriate channel. It is our responsibility to behave in a way that is conducive to consultation.
Thank you, I will now pass you over to Ms Carney who will present a short introductory speech followed by 60 minutes of planned questions and a short period for open questions.
MARGARET CARNEY:
Normally I would start by saying I am pleased to be here, but none of us are pleased to be here because of the nature of what we are trying to deal with. The chances are there are things you would like me to answer, but I can only focus on facts, not political comment. If there is anything I can’t answer tonight I would be happy to find them for you later.
£600 million a year is the council’s budget, but the amount the council directly spends is £230 million the rest is spent for the council on things like schools, Merseytravel and Merseywaste. Of that £230 million over half is spent on adult and child social care. Three quarters of the budget comes from government, the rest from council tax. The council must legally set a balanced budget by March 10; we can’t say we are not going to do that. I have a responsibility to make sure that it is balanced and expenditure equals income. We can’t legally borrow to fund day to day services; we can only borrow to fund investment. When we set the budget (this year) the amount we receive will have gone down by £30 million from April 2010 to April 2011. On top of that, spending pressures mean we need to spend an extra £14 million on things like an aging population and more children in care, so that is an extra £14 million we need to save. So that equals £44 million to cut. Next year based on the government spending review a further £20 million needs to be saved on top, which is a total £64 to be cut; a total of 30% of our controllable budget. So it is not just about the size of the cuts it’s the pace. By June 2010 we needed to make a reduction of £6 million. In October we were given indicative totals of £38 million, in December when we finally knew how much money we would have it gave us only 3 to 4 months to identify and implement the cuts. We had to decide what was most important and it’s hard choices. If we asked around this room what’s most important we’d have a range of responses, and none of them are wrong. Councillors have made these decisons and they have not been made lightly. We have tried to minimise the impact, but we can’t take that amount out without people noticing. I would have loved to have 18 months for consultation, but we have not had that opportunity. You would be the judge of whether (the cuts) are right or not, and you are entitled to do that.
Submitted questions
1. Liz Ford:
If the budget constraint is coming directly from Central Government, what are the council doing to make the case for Sefton with Central Government? For example, in order to protect services, have Sefton applied for any money from the emergency fund, which has been mentioned by the DCLG in the press (The Guardian, Society, 13/12/10)? Also, what problems have Sefton encountered when identifying proposals for cuts and savings?
MC: I wrote to the prime minister and the deputy prime minister outlining our concerns about the process. I am in regular contact with the 3 MPs from Sefton, I briefed John Pugh (Southport MP) on Friday. (Ms Carney said she was also in touch with the Local Authority Association and the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives which she is a member. )
The emergency fund is not something you apply to, it is something you become eligible for, and Sefton is not.
Antony, who read out Liz’s question, asked whether the council would consider doing what Liverpool socialist councillors did in the 80s – break the law and oppose the government for the moral good. She said that isn’t something she has considered, saying ‘as an officer of the council I have a legal responsibility and will stick with that’.
2. David Wilding:
Why have Youth Centres been identified as a proposed area to make savings? I don’t believe our children should suffer, ultimately because of the sins of the bankers.
MC: We have to find £44 million for the 3rd March, we have had to prioritise services. Officers have tiered services. Universal services versus targeted services for vulnerable. Youth services are considered by us to be universal and not part of the essential services. The council is in touch with schools about using their facilities to run more groups, some do very well, some could do more. Going to do a review at some point to see if impacting vulnerable young people too much.
3. Chris Burgess (youth centres):
With the imminent closure of Youth Service provision within Sefton (especially affecting North Sefton), the delayed closure of Sure Start Family Centres the cutting back of leisure services including the free and active initiative and the removal of Children's A & E in Sefton, just what does Sefton Council offer the young people of the borough?
Already, this group of sefton citizens who are more politically aware than the Council leaders give them credit for, are demonised as being nothing but trouble and are often the targets of residents nimbyism - really will have nothing to do and nowhere to go.
MC: The children’s centres are subject to review, (couldn’t talk much about it therefore).
Schools can provide a key role in extended provision.
We do want to provide services, it is just priorities.
4. Peter Bamford:
Why is there no charge for parking at Crosby Baths and Burbo Bank (for Anthony Gormleys 'Another Place')? Yet there is a charge at Dunes Leisure Centre in Southport and an 8am - 8pm charge on Southport sea front? This is costing the council at least £1 milion per annum in lost revenue. Also, why is there a major reduction to park at Bootle Strand on a sunday (70p all day) yet no similar reduction in a major shopping centre like Southport?
MC: There is a charge for Splashworld but it is refunded for 2 hours for users. The estimate is £100,000 not £1million – but still worthwhile. Will consider that in May. Bootle carpark does not operate on a Sunday, (wonders if there is confusion with another carpark operated by the shopping centre).
5. Tom Thompson
Why are business rates so high in the Southport area compared to Liverpool and Preston? How are Sefton going to incentivise regeneration of Southport Town Centre when rates are comparatively high?
MC: The council does not set the business rates, they are set nationally by HMRC. We collect them and they are paid to the government. In terms of the regeneration, we don’t own much rental property. Rates are set up by private landlords – we have met with retailers – where we can identify the landlords which can be difficult as often owned by pension funds overseas. Meeting with leading businessmen to see how we can work together.
Planning jobs and skills, need to balance need around regional, sub-regional and national. Money schemes are no longer there – ran out (e.g. capital of culture money pots)
Other way to ensure that the economy keeps going in this difficult time.
Open invitation. Local business want to be involved, more than happy to invite you.
Redundancy effect – 51% of people working in Sefton work for the public sectors. The government hopes the private sector will pick it up but there will be a time lag.
6. Gemma Brannan (Save Our Children’s Centres):
If you are receiving the Early Years Intervention Grant, yet you are proposing to close the Children’s Centres - where is the money then going to go?
MC: We are not proposing to close them, they are under review. There is some confusion about this grant, it is quite complicated. In 2010-2011 it should have been £15.1 million – it is made up of money we used to receive anyway. It has been reduced to £11.3m, a £3.8m/25% reduction. The government say it hasn’t reduced it but I know what comes in and out. But we are putting more in than that would indicate. I’m happy to go through those figures with you.
(Gemma asked then why John Pugh has told her the council IS getting the grant if in fact they are not)
I have briefed John Pugh and he is taking those figures to the government. I have seen documents that we are not getting it, John Pugh has letters that we are.
7. Jim Ford:
The town of Southport has in recent years lost or is about to lose in the name of “Sefton” the following local services:-
1. 1.The planning department
2. 2. Building Regulations dept
3. 3. Environmental Health
4. 4. Law Courts
5. 5. Botanic Gardens Museum
6. 6. Birkdale, Ainsdale and Churchtown libraries
7. 7. Our local history service (remember that the history of Southport which is on the Ribble is quite distinct from that of Crosby which is on the Mersey)
8. 8. Gritting/snowploughing
In most cases these services have been “centralized” into various parts of “South Sefton” the centre of which is located over twenty miles from our town. Now we appear to be losing “our” allocation of Youth and Sure Start Centres, whilst those in South Sefton are preserved.
How has Sefton analysed the impact of the current programme of cuts to ensure that these do not fall disproportionately on our town, which is 20 miles distant from the centre of South Sefton (ie Bootle Crosby and Maghull) where Sefton services are increasingly being centralized. What is the outcome of the geographical impact assessment which Sefton Council has carried out to ensure equity and that our town is not disproportionately experiencing cuts across a range of services and that cuts are fairly distributed across the Borough of Sefton.”
MC: No we haven’t carried out geographical impact assessments – but we carry out quality impact assessments.
Will be going to be available on website soon.
Demographics not geography.
We will identify where the geographical impacts will fall –
Some things hit Southport – others hit elsewhere in Sefton – hitting everyone. Southport has an ageing population, south Sefton has a younger population – services depend on those factors.
Happy to share analyses.
Happy to develop neighbourhood approaches.
What we have been developing as a process to make that happen –(Ms Carney spoke about the Area Partnership – to bring together people interested in Southport, Formby, and we see how our resources can be used)
Needs of Formby very different to Southport and Bootle.
Children’s centres – not true that all the south Sefton centres are safe – they are being looked at too. Youth services etc which are run by voluntary and faith groups with funding from the council has been under review.
Q: Can we have a town council not a toothless area committee?
Ms Carney refused to answer on the basis that it is political – said take up with councillors.
8. Blyth Crawford:
What consideration has been given to advising the council to overspend to reduce the impact of cuts? Is there any suggestion that other authorities might take this option?
MC: We have net savings – the cabinet has a full report. Tried to identify all the money we put aside for other projects.
To deliver those savings will have to make people redundant.
But some people will be disappointed if thought going to get something (funds) – but needs to be reprioritised.
Frontloading – trying to smooth out.
Details on what money has been found and what it can be spent on instead:
One-off resources to do that.
£12 million from reappraisal from insurance.
Ms Carney said they have already taken out money from rainy day pots – and money set aside for future projects – reassessments of needs is greater to go to things like social care.
9. Phil Riley:
Does Ms Carney have an estimate of the cost to Sefton of the proposed redundancies and the additional pension costs arising from early retirements associated with the redundancies. As things stand these will all fall in 2011/12 and it will impact on the level of service that can be provided by Sefton. Has Sefton also assessed the impact of the redundancies on the local economy?
MC: Very difficult to know how much redundancy will cost – as each individual circumstances are different. Our best estimate is £3 million in current financial year because have been voluntary scheme for 12 to 18 months. Margin of error is huge, £10m.
We will work with private sector – government’s approach to make up shortfall – if that is possible we want to maximise it. Govt have set up a regional growth fund, and we will use that as much as we can. The next couple of years will be tough. About job cuts now, private sector will take time.
We will continue to work regionally and nationally – investment opportunities, job opportunities outside of Sefton. Help people find work.
It will have an impact on Sefton - significant one
10. Maureen Whalley:
Margaret, can you let us know what is going to happen to the "Growing Business" at Park Lodge on Rotten Row? This enterprise is Front Line and involves adults with learning difficulties, who grow and produce
plants for sale to the general public. It does a sterling job and has
been going many years. It gets adults with learning difficulties into
other employments. As the Authority is thinking of cutting the staff
at Botanic gardens I would like an answer to my question.
MC: I agree it is a fantastic scheme we should be looking to replicate. It is currently run with money from the Big Lottery Fund not council money, (but we will try to involve local colleges to try to support it)
11. John Corscaden (Sefton Carers Forum):
If the Council believes in consultation then why ignore the findings when the majority vote against a proposal, leaving the feeling that never mind what you think/want we will do it anyway.
MC: In terms of the current position, we haven’t always been able to follow the comprehensive consultation process we’d like to. It’s a consultation not a referendum so it’s not always what the decision is going to be. It’s our general approach (to follow the consultation results) but we are not always going to be able to do that. We are currently consulting in libraries over opening hours. We will still try to engage. With the Botanic Gardens having gone through the process we amended it to still deliver some savings, but with not as extensive cuts.
(John asked specifically about Specialised Transport Services)
When you are consulting about increasing charges, the answer is going to be no, that would be my response too. It will be put before the elected members.
12. Lillian Wright:
Ms Carney, there was an article in The Visiter on Friday (4/2/11) where you empathised with the drastic reduction in frontline staff. I understand we pay you £150,000 per annum plus expenses and your pension contributions. How much did the councillors from Southport wards claim from Sefton Council in the tax year up to march 2010 in expenses and allowances? Does this include travel and pension contributions? Can we expect a reduction in your salary and perks and in your fellow councillor’s salaries and perks? You are after all a public servant. What are you doing to manage by example?
MC: I empathised with all staff, those that will lose their jobs and those who will have very different roles on new terms and conditions. There will be a major reduction in staff, some frontline, 30% senior managers. In 2009/10 Southport councillors claimed £350,000 in allowances. I am proud to be a public servant. Although I do have a big salary I have a passion for public service and have had for 30 years. I have already taken a voluntary reduction in my salary, and I have never claimed expenses from the council. I’m doing my job working tirelessly to support the council, I have adapted to minimise the impact, I have been covering the Finance Officer’s job for the past year saving the council £100,000, and been visibly supporting staff, out in the community to advise community members about minimising the impact. My commitment to public service is undeniable.
13. Nina Killen (secretary of SACC):
Newcastle City Council has signed up to protocol to avoid compulsory
redundancies. Has Sefton Council looked into how they are managing
this and considered doing the same? What surpluses are available eg in schools and how are they being used? Has the council considered borrowing to make more money available?
MC: We’d love to say no redundancies and we have tried to put things in place to mitigate compulsory redundancies. There’s no protocol but we are working closely with trade unions. We’ve had a volunmtary redundancy scheme in place for 18mths, a jobs freeze and a bump redundancy scheme where if someone wants to go they can replaced by someone else who may otherwise have been made redundant. That person leaves and the other moves into their role. We have not been totally successful but are trying to do anything we can.
School surplus - £12m, that’s down by £3m. Schools can retain 8% of budget (Primaries, special schools), 5% (secondaries). Anything above that goes to the Schools Forum. Legally that money can only be used for school-based spending. We are working closely with schools - some of them have fantastic facilities that may become available for wider public use.
Questions developing from regular SACC meetings:
14. Have Environmental and human rights impacts been considered and Equality Impact Assessments and public consultations been conducted for each proposal sent to full council? How is this being done?
MC: We do high impact assessments when you go through decommissioning, we monitor the effects of that. Any discrimination we will go and consider. All our analysis will be available on the website soon.
15. How are you following the COMPACT guidelines, which guide the partnership between the public sector and the charitable and voluntary sectors, when proposing savings?
MC: We do have a compact agreement.
We want to make sure it’s valuable.
It protects many valuable voluntary and faith sector schemes, but not to say that they have not suffered a reduction. The report in January had a full analysis of the reductions and reasons.
16. How have you approached making proposals to Full Council - what criteria has been used to identify where cuts and savings can be made?
MC: Working with a short timescale, as soon as we knew we started the consultation. We tell staff that their service is under consideration, but we are not able to say a decision has been made. As soon as a decision has been made we try to go face to face with the staff to outline the full decision and go into the full consultation process.
17. Was there any public consultation or consultation with staff at the children’s centres and the Botanic Gardens before proposals for savings were sent to Full Council?
Not answered – as felt already addressed.
On to open questions. Kat reminded audience that in order for everyone to be able to have a chance to speak it was necessary to behave respectfully and there should be no disruptions or people would be asked to leave.
OPEN QUESTIONS
Can you manipulate ring-fenced funding to use the money elsewhere?
MC: First priority is to identify critical frontline services that we have to provide by law. The majority of budget is schools, and they set their own budget. Merseywaste? These budgets are unlikely to come back to the council. Where we can, whether contracts are up for renewal or not, we are negotiating on price and quantity.
2. Reducing the numbers of councillors
MC: Reducing the number of councillors was considered last year, didn’t decide to go ahead. Means that can’t be looked at that again for several years.
3. ‘Politically correct’ roles – are they going to be scrapped to save money – like equality posts?
MC. Depends what you call politically correct – that could be someone else’s idea of ensuring access. To make sure that vulnerable people have equal access to services, to me, is not politically correct. But, yes, any non-essential roles have been reviewed and will go.
Q: What about Traffic calming measures, cycling? Are they being held off for the time being?
MC: I will take that back to the council.
3. How much has Sefton paid to outside private consultants this year?
MC: Private consultants will only be used where they don’t have the necessary skills inside the council, or where it is cheaper to use them. Any proposal to use them goes through a panel and only when there is no alternative are they used. – they must be cost effective.
4. Market regeneration – could it be scrapped because it is too expensive. When there are loads of empty shops?
MC: Take that back to council.
5. Jonathon Allan (UNISON): 51% of people working in Sefton work for public services. For every £1 they earn they spend 61p in the local authority. It is vital for people in public services that the jobs are kept; we are seeing the decimation of local government. £44 million this year to save, and £20 million next year, it is right to the bone, next year is going to be unbelievable. Eric Pickles talks about the indulgance of local government, we are not going to sit back while they abuse public sector workers. I don’t care who caused this situation, whether it was the bankers or the last Labour government, I just know it was not one public sector worker.
6. After the atrocious dealing with the snow last Christmas, how can we have confidence in you and the council to lead this process?
MC: It is difficult, only you can say whether you have confidence. The people who care the most about public services are helping to manage this process through, none of us wants to be here. What we are doing is unpalatable.
I hold my hands up, and apologise again for the snow – we have had the first stage of the review and will continue with the review.
I hope to prove to you that you can have confidence in me, but depending on your own view that can be difficult.
7. Behind these cuts are people and families. I have been a carer for my son for 38 years, and we are terrified about what we are hearing. Consultationshould be not be wishy washy, you are only half doing it. And the rumours that go round, they create panic.
Carers save the country £80 billion a year it is estimated. Do you really have a moral obligation to ensure these services continue, I think you do. Every year you have some story about why our services are being cut, though we know this year is different?
MC: Communication: we do need to get better. It was being said that New Directions was going to be closed but it wasn’t going to close. There are resources in the faith sector that could be called upon. I have political restriction, it is a condition of my employment. It is important for me to maintain political neutrality.
9. Young people – got 7,000 signatures. Why closing youth centres when £6 million is being spent on shops in Maghull. Youth being attacked everywhere, tuition fees, EMA, unemployment – being ostracised. We need the youth workers – not just the centres – they are the ones that encourage us.
MC: Didn’t have any details of spending in Maghull, didn’t think it was council spending. Petitions are an important part of the democractic process – I attended the youth parliament elections. Two petitions were presented at the last council meeting – it’s a decision for elected members but it will give you an opportunity for accountability.
It wasn’t clear how much money has been raised but Celia thought we had definitely made enough to cover the room hire (£100). Kat thanked everyone for coming, especially Ms Carney."
Friday, 4 March 2011
The Final Budget
The Final Budget was set yesterday. As News filters through about what has been cut and what has survived we are investigating calling for a judicial review with the Public Law Project. This looks, not at what decisions have been made, but how they have been made. Whether the council have followed public and european law when setting the budget. If you can help or want to be involved contact me. southportanticuts@hotmail.co.uk or 01704531613
Our main points are:
Have they conducted consultations? The councillors and Ms Carney say no.
Have they conducted the required level of Equality Impact Assessments? Ms Carney and The Council Party Leaders say some have been conducted but they are not of an adequate standard.
Have they correctly identified and considered all their responsibilities under the law? Possibly not, they have categorised Children's Centres and Libraries as "Other services" when arguably they are "regulatory" (required by law).
Will the cuts impact Human Rights/be discriminatory? Possibly as they seem to be disproportionately targeted.
The result of not heeding this, some might say "important", others "politically correct", legislation is that the proposals put to the council have to be voted through using political bias and ideology rather than in full possession of the facts about how the people they are accountable to feel or how they will be affected.
The cut to the Tourism budget is likely to be particularly difficult for Southport as reported in The Visiter. The cuts will be hard across the Borough and we will likely not fully understand the impact until this time next year when more cuts will be being made. I am writing about Southport because it is where I live and understand, please do not take it as a slight against the rest of the Borough - I just don't want to write about what I don't understand fully. In fact if you are from other areas in the Borough please e-mail me with posts reflecting what is happening across the Borough and I can publish them.
All the local cuts will interact with national cuts and it is hard to see how or where the Government's proposed but as yet, not firmly identified, plan for economic growth is going to come from or whether they mean economic growth which benefits the people in terms of wealth and jobs or just economic growth which benefits big business through exploiting the poverty and joblessness they are creating. Whilst I have great sympathy with the plight of the individuals who voted through the cuts to set a balanced budget, I think what they have been complicit in is an unforgivable act which will decimate Southport, Sefton, the North of England and has gone some way to wiping out accountability and democracy in public services and I hope the voters will make them suffer for it at the ballot box.
Morally, if not legally, the councillors have responsibility to the people above the Government they work for the people in the truest sense - they recieve public funding and the law requires they work in our best interests rather than make decisions based on ideology or politics. Really the only fair and right thing, albeit brave, would have been to stand with the people against the poorly administrated and possibly not legal cuts from central government which will ulitmately drive our economy down the same path as Fianna Fail's Austerity program did in Ireland. This is, it is widely accepted by many prominent economists, what every other shock doctrine or austerity drive in history bar Canada's which was attributed to one off economic situations beyond the Canadian Government's control, has done. Even the European Commission which called for governments to reduce their deficits thinks austerity drives do not stimulate growth.
So now, as the cuts begin to materialise on the ground, we listen keenly to sound bites from Central Government about Localism and a "redistribution of power to the people", as our democratic rights, enshrined in Public and European Law, are almost entirely disregarded by our Council whilst implementing deeply damaging cuts as a direct result of Central Government policy we listen and we think - "Is the reality of this new "redistributed" power to the people, as demonstrated by how Local Authorities have been scapegoated and have consequently not involved the public in the cuts process at all, the same reality we will see when it comes to the plan to stimulate the growth we now need more than ever?" I hope not because that prospect is frightening.
Our main points are:
Have they conducted consultations? The councillors and Ms Carney say no.
Have they conducted the required level of Equality Impact Assessments? Ms Carney and The Council Party Leaders say some have been conducted but they are not of an adequate standard.
Have they correctly identified and considered all their responsibilities under the law? Possibly not, they have categorised Children's Centres and Libraries as "Other services" when arguably they are "regulatory" (required by law).
Will the cuts impact Human Rights/be discriminatory? Possibly as they seem to be disproportionately targeted.
The result of not heeding this, some might say "important", others "politically correct", legislation is that the proposals put to the council have to be voted through using political bias and ideology rather than in full possession of the facts about how the people they are accountable to feel or how they will be affected.
The cut to the Tourism budget is likely to be particularly difficult for Southport as reported in The Visiter. The cuts will be hard across the Borough and we will likely not fully understand the impact until this time next year when more cuts will be being made. I am writing about Southport because it is where I live and understand, please do not take it as a slight against the rest of the Borough - I just don't want to write about what I don't understand fully. In fact if you are from other areas in the Borough please e-mail me with posts reflecting what is happening across the Borough and I can publish them.
All the local cuts will interact with national cuts and it is hard to see how or where the Government's proposed but as yet, not firmly identified, plan for economic growth is going to come from or whether they mean economic growth which benefits the people in terms of wealth and jobs or just economic growth which benefits big business through exploiting the poverty and joblessness they are creating. Whilst I have great sympathy with the plight of the individuals who voted through the cuts to set a balanced budget, I think what they have been complicit in is an unforgivable act which will decimate Southport, Sefton, the North of England and has gone some way to wiping out accountability and democracy in public services and I hope the voters will make them suffer for it at the ballot box.
Morally, if not legally, the councillors have responsibility to the people above the Government they work for the people in the truest sense - they recieve public funding and the law requires they work in our best interests rather than make decisions based on ideology or politics. Really the only fair and right thing, albeit brave, would have been to stand with the people against the poorly administrated and possibly not legal cuts from central government which will ulitmately drive our economy down the same path as Fianna Fail's Austerity program did in Ireland. This is, it is widely accepted by many prominent economists, what every other shock doctrine or austerity drive in history bar Canada's which was attributed to one off economic situations beyond the Canadian Government's control, has done. Even the European Commission which called for governments to reduce their deficits thinks austerity drives do not stimulate growth.
So now, as the cuts begin to materialise on the ground, we listen keenly to sound bites from Central Government about Localism and a "redistribution of power to the people", as our democratic rights, enshrined in Public and European Law, are almost entirely disregarded by our Council whilst implementing deeply damaging cuts as a direct result of Central Government policy we listen and we think - "Is the reality of this new "redistributed" power to the people, as demonstrated by how Local Authorities have been scapegoated and have consequently not involved the public in the cuts process at all, the same reality we will see when it comes to the plan to stimulate the growth we now need more than ever?" I hope not because that prospect is frightening.
Public Consultation meeting on the Future of Southport and Ormskirk Hospital Trust!
Full details about the meeting are here.
Jonathan Parry, the Trust's Chief Exec is holding a Public Consultation Meeting in the Family Life Centre on Ash Street from 6pm on Wednesday 9th March (weds next week).
Please go along. The NHS is being entirely restructured and this is an opportunity to let the Trust know your feelings and to hear what they are planning, how it will affect; the two hospitals, patient safety, waiting times, access to care and how care will now be provided.
Jonathan Parry, the Trust's Chief Exec is holding a Public Consultation Meeting in the Family Life Centre on Ash Street from 6pm on Wednesday 9th March (weds next week).
Please go along. The NHS is being entirely restructured and this is an opportunity to let the Trust know your feelings and to hear what they are planning, how it will affect; the two hospitals, patient safety, waiting times, access to care and how care will now be provided.
Tuesday, 1 March 2011
Patrick Butler on "Transforming Sefton" and the legal duties of Sefton Council.
Patrick Butler has blogged about Sefton cuts in The Guardian: here
Sefton only advertised the "Transforming Sefton" website in the Southport Visiter on 26th January. The first budget cut decisions were made on 16th December the second round on 27th January. Whilst the final budget is not due to be set until 3rd March, many of the decisions had already been made. Ms Carney admitted at our last meeting that the timescale meant that public consultations could not be carried out.
Does this seem like good consultation to you? Whilst we are very sympathetic with the timescale and cuts Sefton have been handed from Central Government, and with the plight of Sefton employees and elected representatives, surely this does not mean Sefton are able to disregard public law around consultation or impact assessment? Surely this does not mean they are able to cut services like Sure Start, arguably, in direct confliction with legislation surrounding their provision and/or closure. The law in this area is fairly specific in detailing that Sure Start Centres can only be closed or altered significantly if there are very good reasons (budget cuts will not suffice).
According to DfE Sefton has also received the highest cut of 12.9% to the new Early Intervention Grant money additional to the general budget cut (I called DfE). This money is for things like Sure Start, Youth Centres, The Early Years Workforce, Teen Pregnancy services, connexions e.t.c. They are apparently asking Councils to "prioritise these services" so that the 12.9% cuts does not apply across the board. They believe there is no guidance on which of these, arguably very important and cost effective early intervention services, should be "prioritised" over the others. They suggest Councils "centralise services" - put youth centres in with children's centres but as far as they know there is no funding or support available to Councils to help with this. This means Sure Start, Youth Centres, e.t.c. are effectively looking at possibly more than 12.9% cuts (not counting inflation) since we are not aware how the other services are funded and whether Sefton has outsourced contracts which cannot be broken with providers of the other services/other contractual issues/other priorities.
These cuts have somewhat pitted Sure Start against Youth Centres as each cause competes for the reduced money. This is a shame, they are two causes which really should stand together for all "Early Intervention" services. Two fantastically successful and valued services to represent all the services. The main point is not the ideology but the law. Morally speaking, these services - early interventions, do valuable work to support community cohesiveness and solve social and economic problems. Even if one does not believe in the provision of public services to the disadvantaged or vulnerable or even generally, there is a requirement under law to provide public services of this kind and to satisfy certain equalities requirements. The taxing of individuals and businesses is meant to pay for public services otherwise what is the point in taxation?
Cutting these services specifically will result in the first port being crisis intervention and consequently, higher spending. Instead of children's and youth services there will be police, courts, social services, solicitors, poverty and suffering with both economic and social costs to Sefton and Central Government. By implementing these cuts from Central Government, which themselves may well contravene public law (I am attempting without success to find details of any Impact Assessments or Consultations which have been carried out by DCLG prior to cutting Local Authority budgets or the EIG) over their cuts to Early Intervention, Sefton may well be flouting equality laws by disadvantaging priority groups without consideration to the effect of budget/service changes. The possibility that DCLG may also be flouting Public or European Law in requesting cuts of this level and speed, does not relieve Sefton of its responsibility to work within Public or European Law.
What many Councillors are afraid of - personal and regional sanctions for failing to set a legal budget, may well come true anyway. If the Councillors, who must be aware of their responsibilities under law, pass proposals which have not paid heed to legislation, then the budget is potentially not a legal one anyway and all they will have done is sold Sefton Residents down the river out of fear, ideology or political bias - for these are the very reasons to have consultations and impact assessments in the first place. Decisions cannot be made based on political bias, rather they must be made on measurable effects and in knowledge of the consequences for the public. Councillors, MPs, Councils, Government and Parliament are public servants and services after all, and are ultimately accountable to and required to work in the best interests of, the public.
Resources:
http://www.education.gov.uk/publications/standard/Surestart/Page1/DFE-00020-2011
http://www.thecompact.org.uk/shared_asp_files/GFSR.asp?NodeID=100460
http://www.wrc.org.uk/includes/documents/cm_docs/2009/k/keeping_it_legal.pdf
Sefton Council Code of Practice for Equalities in Procurement
Sefton only advertised the "Transforming Sefton" website in the Southport Visiter on 26th January. The first budget cut decisions were made on 16th December the second round on 27th January. Whilst the final budget is not due to be set until 3rd March, many of the decisions had already been made. Ms Carney admitted at our last meeting that the timescale meant that public consultations could not be carried out.
Does this seem like good consultation to you? Whilst we are very sympathetic with the timescale and cuts Sefton have been handed from Central Government, and with the plight of Sefton employees and elected representatives, surely this does not mean Sefton are able to disregard public law around consultation or impact assessment? Surely this does not mean they are able to cut services like Sure Start, arguably, in direct confliction with legislation surrounding their provision and/or closure. The law in this area is fairly specific in detailing that Sure Start Centres can only be closed or altered significantly if there are very good reasons (budget cuts will not suffice).
According to DfE Sefton has also received the highest cut of 12.9% to the new Early Intervention Grant money additional to the general budget cut (I called DfE). This money is for things like Sure Start, Youth Centres, The Early Years Workforce, Teen Pregnancy services, connexions e.t.c. They are apparently asking Councils to "prioritise these services" so that the 12.9% cuts does not apply across the board. They believe there is no guidance on which of these, arguably very important and cost effective early intervention services, should be "prioritised" over the others. They suggest Councils "centralise services" - put youth centres in with children's centres but as far as they know there is no funding or support available to Councils to help with this. This means Sure Start, Youth Centres, e.t.c. are effectively looking at possibly more than 12.9% cuts (not counting inflation) since we are not aware how the other services are funded and whether Sefton has outsourced contracts which cannot be broken with providers of the other services/other contractual issues/other priorities.
These cuts have somewhat pitted Sure Start against Youth Centres as each cause competes for the reduced money. This is a shame, they are two causes which really should stand together for all "Early Intervention" services. Two fantastically successful and valued services to represent all the services. The main point is not the ideology but the law. Morally speaking, these services - early interventions, do valuable work to support community cohesiveness and solve social and economic problems. Even if one does not believe in the provision of public services to the disadvantaged or vulnerable or even generally, there is a requirement under law to provide public services of this kind and to satisfy certain equalities requirements. The taxing of individuals and businesses is meant to pay for public services otherwise what is the point in taxation?
Cutting these services specifically will result in the first port being crisis intervention and consequently, higher spending. Instead of children's and youth services there will be police, courts, social services, solicitors, poverty and suffering with both economic and social costs to Sefton and Central Government. By implementing these cuts from Central Government, which themselves may well contravene public law (I am attempting without success to find details of any Impact Assessments or Consultations which have been carried out by DCLG prior to cutting Local Authority budgets or the EIG) over their cuts to Early Intervention, Sefton may well be flouting equality laws by disadvantaging priority groups without consideration to the effect of budget/service changes. The possibility that DCLG may also be flouting Public or European Law in requesting cuts of this level and speed, does not relieve Sefton of its responsibility to work within Public or European Law.
What many Councillors are afraid of - personal and regional sanctions for failing to set a legal budget, may well come true anyway. If the Councillors, who must be aware of their responsibilities under law, pass proposals which have not paid heed to legislation, then the budget is potentially not a legal one anyway and all they will have done is sold Sefton Residents down the river out of fear, ideology or political bias - for these are the very reasons to have consultations and impact assessments in the first place. Decisions cannot be made based on political bias, rather they must be made on measurable effects and in knowledge of the consequences for the public. Councillors, MPs, Councils, Government and Parliament are public servants and services after all, and are ultimately accountable to and required to work in the best interests of, the public.
Resources:
http://www.education.gov.uk/publications/standard/Surestart/Page1/DFE-00020-2011
http://www.thecompact.org.uk/shared_asp_files/GFSR.asp?NodeID=100460
http://www.wrc.org.uk/includes/documents/cm_docs/2009/k/keeping_it_legal.pdf
Sefton Council Code of Practice for Equalities in Procurement
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